rennieallen
09-26 11:50 PM
The problem with Per Country limits makes no sense when the same theory is applied to visa's granted because of Skill. Employability has nothing to do with ethnicity (in fact, there are laws that prevent this type of discrimination by employers). It just so happens that currently India and China, due to their educational focus has a lot of people with skills that American industry wants. Who knows, in 10 years this could change and those skills could come from Mauritius and Lichtenstein and then they would be backlogged instead.
Franklin; I agree that per country quotas are discriminatory.
What I am unsure about, is whether it is morally justifiable, and this hinges on whether it actually benefits the United States or not (many forms of discrimination against non-citizens are perfectly legal under the US constitution).
I agree with Hermione, that given the current minuscule quotas the issue is moot (in fact, it was my intention to suggest exactly this, by pointing out that the last thing anyone needs to worry about is per-country quotas when the overall immigration levels are so tiny, and the per-country cap is so small).
I am still on the fence, though, about the moral acceptability of per country quotas in the presence of rationale visa allocations (somewhere around 3 million per year by my estimate). I think at those levels (and with perhaps completely different percentages for the per-country quota) there may indeed be a moral justification (I simply don't know enough about cultural/social dynamics).
I think everyone would agree that the US is certainly entitled to determine how it develops culturally (as is any country).
In its present form of course, the immigration system is damaging the United States (e.g. RBD), so it is impossible for it to be morally acceptable from the US perspective (you can't balance the negative moral implications of discrimination against non-citizens, with the benefits to the citizens of the nation, when there are no benefits to the citizens of the nation).
Significantly, it is most likely true that the present immigration policy is morally acceptable from (say) India's perspective, since it is resulting in improved retention of brain power for India...
Franklin; I agree that per country quotas are discriminatory.
What I am unsure about, is whether it is morally justifiable, and this hinges on whether it actually benefits the United States or not (many forms of discrimination against non-citizens are perfectly legal under the US constitution).
I agree with Hermione, that given the current minuscule quotas the issue is moot (in fact, it was my intention to suggest exactly this, by pointing out that the last thing anyone needs to worry about is per-country quotas when the overall immigration levels are so tiny, and the per-country cap is so small).
I am still on the fence, though, about the moral acceptability of per country quotas in the presence of rationale visa allocations (somewhere around 3 million per year by my estimate). I think at those levels (and with perhaps completely different percentages for the per-country quota) there may indeed be a moral justification (I simply don't know enough about cultural/social dynamics).
I think everyone would agree that the US is certainly entitled to determine how it develops culturally (as is any country).
In its present form of course, the immigration system is damaging the United States (e.g. RBD), so it is impossible for it to be morally acceptable from the US perspective (you can't balance the negative moral implications of discrimination against non-citizens, with the benefits to the citizens of the nation, when there are no benefits to the citizens of the nation).
Significantly, it is most likely true that the present immigration policy is morally acceptable from (say) India's perspective, since it is resulting in improved retention of brain power for India...
wallpaper amor vincit omnia tattoo on
zico123
06-16 09:25 PM
Suppose Company A filed for visa cancellation on 11th June, Monday. Please let me know if there would be any problem in filing for H1B transfer now as Company A has filed for cancellation before i file for H1B Transfer.
I have seen in other posts that you have about 2 weeks to get a new job who will file for transfer. But contact an attorney and if you cannot change job immediately then consider change of status to F1 or another status.
I have seen in other posts that you have about 2 weeks to get a new job who will file for transfer. But contact an attorney and if you cannot change job immediately then consider change of status to F1 or another status.
alterego
09-04 05:05 PM
Someone asked earlier, who changed their mind after reading Jaime. I did after one of his earlier posts.
I was decided on not going, but then as I spent more time on this forum, I realized it is definitely the right thing to do. If not us speaking up then who? Simply answer that. How do lawmakers even know that we exist, that an injustice is happening to us, that we feel frustrated about our situation. They keep getting lopsided anti immigrant venom from some well organized and well funded groups and keep hearing about illegal immigration. Our pain however has resonance with them. We played by the rules, we came and lived legally at the invitation of our AMERICAN employers and the US gov't certified that there is no one to take the jobs we are doing, we paid taxes, we have integrated into society and we are asking, why are we being made to wait this long?
What's to feel bad or shy about in that?
I'll tell you something, those who are skeptical simply do not understand how this country works. It is a representative democracy and people pressure and protests and lobbying DO WORK. Otherwise lobbying would not be the biggest growth industry of the day. There is no other way to inspire change, and it has been, can and will be done. I have seen it time and over again.
The final point I wish to make is, those coming to this rally have pre-selected traits. They are the pre-selected ones who are programmed to be successful in this country. They understand it and are proactive and entrepreneural and willing to spend, take risks, take a leadership, are responsible and will do the right thing. These traits have been and will continue to be rewarded in the long run in this country. I wish we can project that our community has many of these people.
Those meek, follow the leader, risk averse, miserly, behind the back types, may have their little breadcrumbs but will never have the attributes to achieve anything of note in the USA anyway. They will continue to find lame excuses for their lack of progress.
Every reader needs to decide for themself which type he/she is. This is after all the greatest country in the world that you are asking for acceptance into.
I was decided on not going, but then as I spent more time on this forum, I realized it is definitely the right thing to do. If not us speaking up then who? Simply answer that. How do lawmakers even know that we exist, that an injustice is happening to us, that we feel frustrated about our situation. They keep getting lopsided anti immigrant venom from some well organized and well funded groups and keep hearing about illegal immigration. Our pain however has resonance with them. We played by the rules, we came and lived legally at the invitation of our AMERICAN employers and the US gov't certified that there is no one to take the jobs we are doing, we paid taxes, we have integrated into society and we are asking, why are we being made to wait this long?
What's to feel bad or shy about in that?
I'll tell you something, those who are skeptical simply do not understand how this country works. It is a representative democracy and people pressure and protests and lobbying DO WORK. Otherwise lobbying would not be the biggest growth industry of the day. There is no other way to inspire change, and it has been, can and will be done. I have seen it time and over again.
The final point I wish to make is, those coming to this rally have pre-selected traits. They are the pre-selected ones who are programmed to be successful in this country. They understand it and are proactive and entrepreneural and willing to spend, take risks, take a leadership, are responsible and will do the right thing. These traits have been and will continue to be rewarded in the long run in this country. I wish we can project that our community has many of these people.
Those meek, follow the leader, risk averse, miserly, behind the back types, may have their little breadcrumbs but will never have the attributes to achieve anything of note in the USA anyway. They will continue to find lame excuses for their lack of progress.
Every reader needs to decide for themself which type he/she is. This is after all the greatest country in the world that you are asking for acceptance into.
2011 amor vincit omnia tattoo on
JazzByTheBay
11-15 06:04 PM
There's one BIG difference - taxpaying we may be (I hate tax time... !!! :) - we certainly are not Americans yet - not even close.
Though we may enjoy the American way of life, and may have already integrated or have the capability and willingness to do so in this great melting pot of cultures much faster and more transparently than other immigrants (ready with the brickbats... ?) - we're long way from becoming Americans.
Just to set the record straight...
jazz
Doesn't it sound rude... they celebrate, feast and we fast. If we admire this country for giving us so much we should also show our support and adopt the culture and celebrate with them to show we are tax paying Americans who enjoy in American way.
We can show our protest by sending 1-wish for our own GC ( may be in the form of Christmas tree ornament) to all law makers. Everybody makes a wish and our wish is GC.
Though we may enjoy the American way of life, and may have already integrated or have the capability and willingness to do so in this great melting pot of cultures much faster and more transparently than other immigrants (ready with the brickbats... ?) - we're long way from becoming Americans.
Just to set the record straight...
jazz
Doesn't it sound rude... they celebrate, feast and we fast. If we admire this country for giving us so much we should also show our support and adopt the culture and celebrate with them to show we are tax paying Americans who enjoy in American way.
We can show our protest by sending 1-wish for our own GC ( may be in the form of Christmas tree ornament) to all law makers. Everybody makes a wish and our wish is GC.
more...
jonty_11
07-14 03:54 PM
While Legislative fixes are teh way to go..all Lofgren Bills seem to have hit a brick wall....IV'ans should vigorously pursue those...
micofrost
06-13 11:10 AM
eb3 guys need to move on to a new job and get the i140 ported to eb2. Do not depend on VB luck. You have more chances of hitting the lotto jackpot rather than getting lucky for PD to move.
Lobbying by IV is a great effort but do not think anything will happen for another 4 years. No CIR until the economy comes out of recession. Neither this nor the incoming President will have the guts to pass it through. And even if the CIR becomes a possibility after 4 years, you do not know in what form it going to take shape. The way I see, they will be more anti-H1B restrictions being passed before CIR comes to the floor. I won't be surprised if they say unless you have a US degree, you can't work in US. That will screw up a whole ot of NIV guys. Ofcourse it will also help a whole ot too. But point is do what is in your hands. Always have a backup plan.
If you say its was easy for me to say this, trust me the current one is the third labor filing. First being eb3. Just quit because I didnot like the group.
Lobbying by IV is a great effort but do not think anything will happen for another 4 years. No CIR until the economy comes out of recession. Neither this nor the incoming President will have the guts to pass it through. And even if the CIR becomes a possibility after 4 years, you do not know in what form it going to take shape. The way I see, they will be more anti-H1B restrictions being passed before CIR comes to the floor. I won't be surprised if they say unless you have a US degree, you can't work in US. That will screw up a whole ot of NIV guys. Ofcourse it will also help a whole ot too. But point is do what is in your hands. Always have a backup plan.
If you say its was easy for me to say this, trust me the current one is the third labor filing. First being eb3. Just quit because I didnot like the group.
more...
abhijitp
02-15 03:15 PM
Folks this is great news!! I agree, we are all winners in the end!!! :) But don't go trying to beat me now abhijitp haha just kidding :D
It's the weekend folks, let's print out some template letters and ask friends for 1 minute of their time.
Let's keep up the momentum, March 1st will be here before we know it.
I am now on my toes... just sent a template to some folks who I never felt would sign it, but doesn't hurt taking a chance:)
Anything for "Admin relief"!
It's the weekend folks, let's print out some template letters and ask friends for 1 minute of their time.
Let's keep up the momentum, March 1st will be here before we know it.
I am now on my toes... just sent a template to some folks who I never felt would sign it, but doesn't hurt taking a chance:)
Anything for "Admin relief"!
2010 Tattoo amor vincit omnia Back;
rongha_2000
07-18 03:01 PM
Is there a thing called Double Ban? If there is ban this self centered piece of crap again.:mad:
Most people showing their cool wisdom still not getting the point. A BEC person with Feb 2005 PD may not be able to file for another 2 years while a PD 2007 person will be enjoying EAD during that time. In my dictionary this is injustice. And that's why i was kinda happy when they updated the July bulletin, now I'm not really happy even if my company has already filed my 485/EAD on july 2. I'm still wishing (and i'll be honest) USCIS come up with a reason/regulation/rule that will delay EAD for everyone until BEC people are able to file 485 OR in Oct they retrogress only till March 2005.
P.S. if you are superstitious, you want to know this: most of my relatives/freinds call me "Black Tongue" because usually when i say something unpleasent it happens. e.g. i told my wife last month that i don't believe everyone is able to file 485, something will go wrong and everyone will be disappointed. (when everyone expects something it does not happen- contrarian theory)
Most people showing their cool wisdom still not getting the point. A BEC person with Feb 2005 PD may not be able to file for another 2 years while a PD 2007 person will be enjoying EAD during that time. In my dictionary this is injustice. And that's why i was kinda happy when they updated the July bulletin, now I'm not really happy even if my company has already filed my 485/EAD on july 2. I'm still wishing (and i'll be honest) USCIS come up with a reason/regulation/rule that will delay EAD for everyone until BEC people are able to file 485 OR in Oct they retrogress only till March 2005.
P.S. if you are superstitious, you want to know this: most of my relatives/freinds call me "Black Tongue" because usually when i say something unpleasent it happens. e.g. i told my wife last month that i don't believe everyone is able to file 485, something will go wrong and everyone will be disappointed. (when everyone expects something it does not happen- contrarian theory)
more...
grupak
07-14 04:14 PM
Lot of us are happy with the new VB but the call campaign continues. Its very important. We still have lot of work to do.
We have to get the 3 immigration bills introduced with bi-partisan support.
Did you watch Lofgren video?
http://www.fastcompany.tv/video/the-geeky-congresswoman
Start watching from about 6 1/2 minutes.
Lets keep this thread on top.
We have to get the 3 immigration bills introduced with bi-partisan support.
Did you watch Lofgren video?
http://www.fastcompany.tv/video/the-geeky-congresswoman
Start watching from about 6 1/2 minutes.
Lets keep this thread on top.
hair amor vincit omnia tattoo on
alahiri
06-30 11:05 AM
Consider sending mail on the following lines to Senators and whoever that matters :
I am very glad to know that you are going to introduce a bill to help retain American Tecohnology Competitiveness termed as SKIL BILL. In regards to that I would request you to kindly consider adding to this bill a provision of awarding Green Card to skilled workers who have been in this country for six years legally and continuosly? There is something similar to this in UK immigration laws and this provision will automatically reduce the plight of the "silent minority" who have to wait for years for their Green Card approval and not able to change jobs etc. For senior professionals with many years of experience this is a very frustrating experience and since the whole process drags on for years many of them are forced to leave this country because they cannot take long term investment decisions when the future is always so uncertain.
Having a provision of automatically awarding Green Cards to H1B visa holders who have been here for more than 6 years and have applied for a Green Card will have the following positive results: - Lower the workload for the Immigration Services and streamline the process. The fact that someone has been here for 6 years legally and paid their taxes should entitle them for a "express checkout".
- Give a boost to economy (housing etc) as the professionals with Green Card can make investment decisions.
- Will not displace American Workers as the Green Card is awarded to professionals who are allready here and working for last 6 years or more.
- Most importantly it will retain American competitiveness by retaining the experienced professionals who will otherwise go back because of the very long wait for their Green Card approval.
I am very glad to know that you are going to introduce a bill to help retain American Tecohnology Competitiveness termed as SKIL BILL. In regards to that I would request you to kindly consider adding to this bill a provision of awarding Green Card to skilled workers who have been in this country for six years legally and continuosly? There is something similar to this in UK immigration laws and this provision will automatically reduce the plight of the "silent minority" who have to wait for years for their Green Card approval and not able to change jobs etc. For senior professionals with many years of experience this is a very frustrating experience and since the whole process drags on for years many of them are forced to leave this country because they cannot take long term investment decisions when the future is always so uncertain.
Having a provision of automatically awarding Green Cards to H1B visa holders who have been here for more than 6 years and have applied for a Green Card will have the following positive results: - Lower the workload for the Immigration Services and streamline the process. The fact that someone has been here for 6 years legally and paid their taxes should entitle them for a "express checkout".
- Give a boost to economy (housing etc) as the professionals with Green Card can make investment decisions.
- Will not displace American Workers as the Green Card is awarded to professionals who are allready here and working for last 6 years or more.
- Most importantly it will retain American competitiveness by retaining the experienced professionals who will otherwise go back because of the very long wait for their Green Card approval.
more...
walking_dude
05-01 01:11 PM
Just like IRS will be mailing checks to provide stimulus to the economy, IV bills need the stimulus of your checks to move forward.Now that Stimulus checks are in the mail, it's time for the community to loosen the purse strings and contribute to something that will benefit you immensely.
Let's not let this historic opportunity go waste over a sum of $50 or $100, something many of us spent just to get to the nearest available USCIS recognized doctor for our AOS medical tests. If these bills pass the savings are much greater - EAD/AP/DL renewal fees, FP fees, AC21 fees (whenever you change the job) etc. Now that the new Medical form has been posted - with additional TB testing - old tests may be considered invalid after a period of time ( I'm not saying they'll be, but knowing USCIS anything's possible). Not to mention job opportunities lost due to a missing plastic card - every one of us, EAD users, has at least one experience, where we couldn't apply or were denied opportunities for not having GC.
Considering the cost vs. benefits ratio, and the low risks unvolved (you aren't investing whole of your 401(k) here), let's not act 'pennywise and pound foolish'. Lets not fall victim to self-defeatist pessimism and thriftiness. If ,God forbid, the bills don't pass you are losing just 50 bucks, 100 bucks... something you'd have lost when the mail-in rebate check got lost in mail (or not got posted at all!). It's not like any of us will be losing our retirement savings or all our stocks. I'm sure no one will foreclose their homes because of it :-)
We raised more than 30K when there was no bill (Omnibus), now that there is a bill under discussion, I can't see any reason why we are taking so long to cross a modest 10K?!
Let's not let this historic opportunity go waste over a sum of $50 or $100, something many of us spent just to get to the nearest available USCIS recognized doctor for our AOS medical tests. If these bills pass the savings are much greater - EAD/AP/DL renewal fees, FP fees, AC21 fees (whenever you change the job) etc. Now that the new Medical form has been posted - with additional TB testing - old tests may be considered invalid after a period of time ( I'm not saying they'll be, but knowing USCIS anything's possible). Not to mention job opportunities lost due to a missing plastic card - every one of us, EAD users, has at least one experience, where we couldn't apply or were denied opportunities for not having GC.
Considering the cost vs. benefits ratio, and the low risks unvolved (you aren't investing whole of your 401(k) here), let's not act 'pennywise and pound foolish'. Lets not fall victim to self-defeatist pessimism and thriftiness. If ,God forbid, the bills don't pass you are losing just 50 bucks, 100 bucks... something you'd have lost when the mail-in rebate check got lost in mail (or not got posted at all!). It's not like any of us will be losing our retirement savings or all our stocks. I'm sure no one will foreclose their homes because of it :-)
We raised more than 30K when there was no bill (Omnibus), now that there is a bill under discussion, I can't see any reason why we are taking so long to cross a modest 10K?!
hot words Amor Vincit Omnia,
anjans
07-15 11:25 PM
only the month of AUg approvals is going to validate or invalidate...but makes sense so far. ;-)
more...
house amor vincit omnia tattoo on ack. amor vincit omnia tattoo on
mariner5555
03-14 02:12 PM
Nobody is talking because that suffering period and criteria and reasons all over. Nowonwards you will see the effects of what happened in 2002-2004.EB3-I the slowest in the group is at Oct 2001. So Forget Apr 2001.
o.k..I read some of your old posts (but not thorougly) and I was confused (I guess you have done lot of research) - so can you explain again ?
in yr opinion - does it mean EB3(I) won't go back to april 2001 ?
I guess by "what happened in 2002 - 2004" - you mean lawyers filed most cases in EB3 ..am I right ?
would appreciate yr reply ..Thanks !!
o.k..I read some of your old posts (but not thorougly) and I was confused (I guess you have done lot of research) - so can you explain again ?
in yr opinion - does it mean EB3(I) won't go back to april 2001 ?
I guess by "what happened in 2002 - 2004" - you mean lawyers filed most cases in EB3 ..am I right ?
would appreciate yr reply ..Thanks !!
tattoo amor vincit omnia tattoo on
Happyday
06-26 12:05 PM
Passes
64 Ayes
35 Nos
The Bill Goes Fwd
Recess till 2.15 PM
64 Ayes
35 Nos
The Bill Goes Fwd
Recess till 2.15 PM
more...
pictures To a wanton god
Totoro
05-16 12:39 PM
What end result you think would be?
There are several benefits to media coverage.
You create awareness and build alliances.
You give the other party (in this case congress) an opportunity to correct the problem.
You get reporters to do additional investigate work that may help you build a case (This has already happened).
You have an opportunity to correct public misconceptions, such as that all ITIN filers are illegal aliens, and thereby reduce the chance that the public will support such action in the future.
There are several benefits to media coverage.
You create awareness and build alliances.
You give the other party (in this case congress) an opportunity to correct the problem.
You get reporters to do additional investigate work that may help you build a case (This has already happened).
You have an opportunity to correct public misconceptions, such as that all ITIN filers are illegal aliens, and thereby reduce the chance that the public will support such action in the future.
dresses amor vincit omnia tattoo
grupak
06-26 09:28 AM
Is the efforts of EB3 (I) volunteers being exploited (indirectly, ofcourse)? What are they fighting for?
I don't see how. If the bills pass, then everybody in queue benefits. Simply switching to EB2 is not going to work because it is also retro. The people impacted by retrogression should take the lead in fixing the mess.
I don't see how. If the bills pass, then everybody in queue benefits. Simply switching to EB2 is not going to work because it is also retro. The people impacted by retrogression should take the lead in fixing the mess.
more...
makeup Tattoo amor vincit omnia Back
GCard_Dream
03-21 11:16 AM
Great post. Couldn't agree with you more.
The more I read this form, the more I become disgruntled with this community! To say that someone from a lower class of visa and not from an "Oversubscribed country" (and I am assuming you mean India) is less skilled and less deserving than someone from a higher class and oversubscribed country is ludicrous to say the least. Each and everyone of us (and I mean "legal immigrants") have our own skill sets and contribute equally to the American society. As long as we are competent at what we do, then we are all SKILLED in our own way. The only real defining difference among the visa classes is the level of education not skill. To suggest one is better based on education alone is arrogance and nothing else!
The U.S. immigration system is not without its flaws and despite the delays and frustrations, it is FAIR! The per country limit is to ensure that citizens of ALL nations have an equal opportunity to immigrate to the U.S. and not just a select few. The only thing that I have found unfair as far as immigration in this country is concerned is the politicians focused efforts to do something for the "illegal" immigrants at the expense of the "legal" immigrants.
We are all in this together and the insults and innuendos that dominate this forum divide us so let's stop them and focus on the real issues!
The more I read this form, the more I become disgruntled with this community! To say that someone from a lower class of visa and not from an "Oversubscribed country" (and I am assuming you mean India) is less skilled and less deserving than someone from a higher class and oversubscribed country is ludicrous to say the least. Each and everyone of us (and I mean "legal immigrants") have our own skill sets and contribute equally to the American society. As long as we are competent at what we do, then we are all SKILLED in our own way. The only real defining difference among the visa classes is the level of education not skill. To suggest one is better based on education alone is arrogance and nothing else!
The U.S. immigration system is not without its flaws and despite the delays and frustrations, it is FAIR! The per country limit is to ensure that citizens of ALL nations have an equal opportunity to immigrate to the U.S. and not just a select few. The only thing that I have found unfair as far as immigration in this country is concerned is the politicians focused efforts to do something for the "illegal" immigrants at the expense of the "legal" immigrants.
We are all in this together and the insults and innuendos that dominate this forum divide us so let's stop them and focus on the real issues!
girlfriend amor vincit omnia tattoo on
chanduv23
12-10 11:16 AM
Check this thread
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16004
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16004
hairstyles amor vincit omnia side tattoo.
shiankuraaf
05-18 09:50 AM
Sent email to Senator D-NJ
waitnwatch
06-09 01:27 AM
All,
I have been a passive follower on IV for few weeks now. I read the news clippings that people had posted where there was some Gautam Aggarwal who felt the point system was good. I see a press release from him that I saw floating around some mailing list.
Quite honestly even though lots of us disagree with him, he does make a very valid point. IV should consider clubbing US educated people such that 2 separate quotas can be created. Instead of banishing him as an elitist look at his point he is making by just marketing how the country is using the educated. Using a well respected university name is no different than talking about how we legals pay taxes etc. Just because we are educated and better of that the illegals as an argument is no less than elitism in that sense. I happened to go through gautamagg's post after the Guitrezz rally - read his message again sans tone. He makes a point. This CIR bill could have been good for us if we approached it positively looking at US educated people as a group too. Also his statement on the AP report about MPS being good is not totally incorrect in an environment where both EB and MPS may exist - if we can get that i.e. EB and MPS keeps both sides happy and we should fight for that. I emailed gautamagg and he did mention that the AP report cut out that part of his statement and told me to verify that with the reporter if I wished to. I think we guys need to be less passionate before we throw stones at others. IV is definitely doing a great job but people should share opinions openly on strategy - we are all humans and we may have missed an important aspect at IV - most IV folks seem to be non-US educated consultants and therefore disagree with Gautam. We really are 2 diff groups who want the same result with better partnership. My 2 cents. His press release:
For Immediate Press Release: May 28, 2007
“Grand Bargain” Immigration Bill creates issues for International Students in Economics, Finance and Business
Mountain View, CA – May 28, 2007 – The US Senate is actively debating the proposed “Bi-partisan Grand Bargain” Immigration Reform bill. While the bill does have many provisions to attract educated people from outside the US, it also creates restrictions for people with an economics/ finance background.
One of the proposals is to introduce an additional visa category for people coming to the US for graduate study. Though the proposed F-4 visa category is welcome by the international students’ community, it is unfavorable for people with a non-technical background or for people with a technical background who would like to gain additional skills outside of technology to be successful entrepreneurs. The proposed category, called the F-4 students visa, allows international students two major provisions that the existing student visa, the F-1, is restrictive in:
1. F-4 students do not have to prove a non-immigration intent. Unlike F-1 visa applicants, students coming on an F-4 visa will have the ability to have a “dual intent” at the time of applying for their visa, while entering the Unites States, or while maintaining their F-4 status in the US. Such students can have a pending Green Card (GC) application or can apply for one while on F-4 status. This is in contrast to the existing F-1 category in which a previous or current intent to immigrate to the United States negatively impacts a persons ability to obtain an F-1 visa.
2. Under the F-4 visa, instead of 12-months the students will have up to 24-months of Optional Practical Training (OPT) available after graduation. The larger time window will help students evaluate employment options while staying agnostic of visa issues.
The bill restricts the F-4 visa to people who would attend advanced degrees in the fields of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM). Such limitation to STEM alone would negatively impact the inflow of international students to other graduate programs such as Finance, Economics, and Business. In today’s dynamic global economies, technology and business work together. Over a third of the MBA class in top US schools such as Wharton, Stanford, Harvard, and Cornell comes from a technology background. Restricting these provisions to STEM degrees alone will result in a severe shortage of highly skilled international students coming to the US for an MBA due to an advantage the STEM degree holders will have over them. This will impede the abilities of many “technologists” to obtain business and finance education and will reverse the positive trend in places such as the Silicon Valley where many engineers turn into successful entrepreneurs creating wealth and job opportunities for many Americans and add to America’s competitive edge.
While the Senate has shown foresight by introducing the F-4 visa that helps in retaining people with advanced education from the US, it remains a very myopic solution to the problem it intends to address. Next week, the Senate comes back from recess to discuss amendments to this bill, this press release appeals to the Senate to consider enhancing the provisions of the F-4 as well.
Note: Hundreds of people are affected by this already. With a Masters in Computer Science from Cornell University, 7-years of technology experience in the Silicon Valley, and after paying over $ 150,000 in taxes, Gautam, issuer of this Press release, may be unable to join his MBA class at The Wharton School this year. Because he had once started his Green Card process and established an “intent to immigrate”, it is difficult for him to reverse the process and obtain a students visa. Over 3-4 years of processing wait times has resulted in many people such as him to give-up their applications in lieu of additional education. But, their past intent looms over their very uncertain future: 22 of them have connected with each other and pray that their Indian Gods stay happy with them on the day of their student-visa interviews in India and that reason and common sense prevail.
###
Contact:
Gautam Aggarwal
gautam.aggarwal@gmail.com
I would beg to differ on the issue of a Merit Based System being good for us and I have a US Ph.D in a STEM field with over 5 years of post degree experience.
I have calculated that a Masters in Computer Science with 5 years experience will get more points than a Ph.D in say Civil Engineering because of two reasons (1) Computer Science is a high demand field and Civil Engineering is not. (2) A Ph.D may take around 6-7 years to get and by the time this Ph.D gets 5 years experience he may be touching 40 and not even getting the points allotted to those under 40.
If you are a professor in Civil Engineering from India or China and even have tenure there is a big chance that you would not get a green card given that there will be a 10% country limit.
Wouldn't you think that such a system would be seriously flawed or do you think that Gautam is correct I am myopic.
IV may have a predominance of non US bachelors in its membership but most of its core have US degrees. So if you look at what IV backs you would find that even though they cannot fit in every individuals tailored requirements they very well realize what is for the greater good.
I have been a passive follower on IV for few weeks now. I read the news clippings that people had posted where there was some Gautam Aggarwal who felt the point system was good. I see a press release from him that I saw floating around some mailing list.
Quite honestly even though lots of us disagree with him, he does make a very valid point. IV should consider clubbing US educated people such that 2 separate quotas can be created. Instead of banishing him as an elitist look at his point he is making by just marketing how the country is using the educated. Using a well respected university name is no different than talking about how we legals pay taxes etc. Just because we are educated and better of that the illegals as an argument is no less than elitism in that sense. I happened to go through gautamagg's post after the Guitrezz rally - read his message again sans tone. He makes a point. This CIR bill could have been good for us if we approached it positively looking at US educated people as a group too. Also his statement on the AP report about MPS being good is not totally incorrect in an environment where both EB and MPS may exist - if we can get that i.e. EB and MPS keeps both sides happy and we should fight for that. I emailed gautamagg and he did mention that the AP report cut out that part of his statement and told me to verify that with the reporter if I wished to. I think we guys need to be less passionate before we throw stones at others. IV is definitely doing a great job but people should share opinions openly on strategy - we are all humans and we may have missed an important aspect at IV - most IV folks seem to be non-US educated consultants and therefore disagree with Gautam. We really are 2 diff groups who want the same result with better partnership. My 2 cents. His press release:
For Immediate Press Release: May 28, 2007
“Grand Bargain” Immigration Bill creates issues for International Students in Economics, Finance and Business
Mountain View, CA – May 28, 2007 – The US Senate is actively debating the proposed “Bi-partisan Grand Bargain” Immigration Reform bill. While the bill does have many provisions to attract educated people from outside the US, it also creates restrictions for people with an economics/ finance background.
One of the proposals is to introduce an additional visa category for people coming to the US for graduate study. Though the proposed F-4 visa category is welcome by the international students’ community, it is unfavorable for people with a non-technical background or for people with a technical background who would like to gain additional skills outside of technology to be successful entrepreneurs. The proposed category, called the F-4 students visa, allows international students two major provisions that the existing student visa, the F-1, is restrictive in:
1. F-4 students do not have to prove a non-immigration intent. Unlike F-1 visa applicants, students coming on an F-4 visa will have the ability to have a “dual intent” at the time of applying for their visa, while entering the Unites States, or while maintaining their F-4 status in the US. Such students can have a pending Green Card (GC) application or can apply for one while on F-4 status. This is in contrast to the existing F-1 category in which a previous or current intent to immigrate to the United States negatively impacts a persons ability to obtain an F-1 visa.
2. Under the F-4 visa, instead of 12-months the students will have up to 24-months of Optional Practical Training (OPT) available after graduation. The larger time window will help students evaluate employment options while staying agnostic of visa issues.
The bill restricts the F-4 visa to people who would attend advanced degrees in the fields of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM). Such limitation to STEM alone would negatively impact the inflow of international students to other graduate programs such as Finance, Economics, and Business. In today’s dynamic global economies, technology and business work together. Over a third of the MBA class in top US schools such as Wharton, Stanford, Harvard, and Cornell comes from a technology background. Restricting these provisions to STEM degrees alone will result in a severe shortage of highly skilled international students coming to the US for an MBA due to an advantage the STEM degree holders will have over them. This will impede the abilities of many “technologists” to obtain business and finance education and will reverse the positive trend in places such as the Silicon Valley where many engineers turn into successful entrepreneurs creating wealth and job opportunities for many Americans and add to America’s competitive edge.
While the Senate has shown foresight by introducing the F-4 visa that helps in retaining people with advanced education from the US, it remains a very myopic solution to the problem it intends to address. Next week, the Senate comes back from recess to discuss amendments to this bill, this press release appeals to the Senate to consider enhancing the provisions of the F-4 as well.
Note: Hundreds of people are affected by this already. With a Masters in Computer Science from Cornell University, 7-years of technology experience in the Silicon Valley, and after paying over $ 150,000 in taxes, Gautam, issuer of this Press release, may be unable to join his MBA class at The Wharton School this year. Because he had once started his Green Card process and established an “intent to immigrate”, it is difficult for him to reverse the process and obtain a students visa. Over 3-4 years of processing wait times has resulted in many people such as him to give-up their applications in lieu of additional education. But, their past intent looms over their very uncertain future: 22 of them have connected with each other and pray that their Indian Gods stay happy with them on the day of their student-visa interviews in India and that reason and common sense prevail.
###
Contact:
Gautam Aggarwal
gautam.aggarwal@gmail.com
I would beg to differ on the issue of a Merit Based System being good for us and I have a US Ph.D in a STEM field with over 5 years of post degree experience.
I have calculated that a Masters in Computer Science with 5 years experience will get more points than a Ph.D in say Civil Engineering because of two reasons (1) Computer Science is a high demand field and Civil Engineering is not. (2) A Ph.D may take around 6-7 years to get and by the time this Ph.D gets 5 years experience he may be touching 40 and not even getting the points allotted to those under 40.
If you are a professor in Civil Engineering from India or China and even have tenure there is a big chance that you would not get a green card given that there will be a 10% country limit.
Wouldn't you think that such a system would be seriously flawed or do you think that Gautam is correct I am myopic.
IV may have a predominance of non US bachelors in its membership but most of its core have US degrees. So if you look at what IV backs you would find that even though they cannot fit in every individuals tailored requirements they very well realize what is for the greater good.
BRK
05-21 03:20 PM
in MI. Sent emails to the senators in MI. Thnx. keep up the good work.
No comments:
Post a Comment